			    TRAVELLER Digest 79

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re:  TRAVELLER digest 78	by Jim Couch <jc@crl.com>
  2) Re: The Virus in TNE	by Derek Wildstar <wildstar@qrc.com>
  3) AHL in Battle Rider (TD#78)	by Derek Wildstar <wildstar@qrc.com>
  4) BattleRider Ships I did	by Michael Llaneza <mllaneza@mercury.sfsu.edu>
  5) 2300 =! TRAVELLER	by john.bogan@asb.com
  6) Re; Supernova and stutterwarp questions...	by Duncan Law-Green <dlg@jb.man.ac.uk>
  7) Supernova duration	by Stewart Eyres <spe@jb.man.ac.uk>
  8) TRAVELLER digest 78	by Hugh Foster <100326.446@compuserve.com>

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Date: Sat, 22 Oct 1994 14:35:01 -0700
From: Jim Couch <jc@crl.com>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re:  TRAVELLER digest 78
Message-ID: <199410222135.AA29859@crl.crl.com>

Autoreply:

The address gh@crl.com is no longer valid.
The address gwh@crl.com has been changed to gherbert@crl.com

Please cancel any mailing lists to either of these two addresses.

Thank you.

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Date: Sat, 22 Oct 94 17:40:10 -0400
From: Derek Wildstar <wildstar@qrc.com>
To: ehenry@newbridge.com
Cc: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: The Virus in TNE
Message-ID: <9410222140.AA03243@qrc.com>

In TD#78, Ethan Henry writes:
>  Is the ENTIRE PREMISE behind TNE that the intelligent-chip-things from
>  Signal GK take over the universe???  Sheesh.  What next, hivers posing as
>  SolSec agents???

No, no, of course not.

The ENTIRE PREMISE behind TNE is that deliberately-mutated, MANIACALLY
HOMICIDAL versions of the intelligent-chip-things from Signal GK are
unleashed and DESTROY the universe.

As far as the Hivers posing as SolSec agents, I'm sure you realize that's
COMPLETELY IMPOSSIBLE, because the Virus has DESTROYED civilisation, and
SolSec, TOO!  In order to pose as SolSec agents, the Hivers in T:TNE
have had to conduct a long MANIPULATION to CREATE a NEW SOLSEC, called
ARSES (or something that sounds like that).  You see, they've got to
RECREATE SolSec BEFORE they can POSE AS SOLSEC AGENTS.

Just remember this when you see a Hiver "technical advisor" on an RCES ship.


As I'm sure you can see, it's entirely different, and represents
no alteration whatsoever of the original Traveller concepts.

Note for the humor-impaired or lawsuit-inclined: the above to be delivered
in melodramatic tones with a heavy undercurrent of sarcasm, and a
loony-tunes inspired maniacal grin.  Many smilies implied, see:

:-)  :-)  :-)  In short: Yes, Ethan, T:TNE is really "Twilight:2000 in
Space".
You can tell, because the game title has a colon in it.  :-)  :-)  :-)


wildstar@quark.qrc.com

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                        "TERRORIST on the TML"

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Date: Sat, 22 Oct 94 19:26:46 -0400
From: Derek Wildstar <wildstar@qrc.com>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: AHL in Battle Rider (TD#78)
Message-ID: <9410222326.AA03312@qrc.com>

Allen Shock wrote:
>               ** The fighter has no MFD's, but can carry four missles in
> grapples. These are presumably controlled by MFD's on the mother ship.

The AHL has 40 TL-15 MFDs (and could therefore control up to 200 missiles
this way), but presumably would arm at least some of the fighters with FIMs
(Fully-Independent Missiles, see BL pp.20) which would engage their target
without needing MFD support.

Agains small vessels like the Auroras, the AHL would probably engage them
with fighters and missiles while the threats were outside of weapons range
to the AHL.  Presuming that the targets were detected in time, each Aurora
would brobably have been engaged by 8 FIMs each (two fighters per target,
from the squadron that was on CAP at the time) before getting within weapons
range of the AHL, and then by another 24 FIMs each (from an attack by the
other three squadrons of Ramparts, scrambled to interecept the Auroras).
After being thus softened up, and presuming that they haven't given up
already, they can engage the Azhanti itself.

>      We took 7 Aurora class clippers up against the AHL, without using
> fighters. The AHL was defeated, but there were only two Auroras left at
> the end, and the HL's final death was due to a "Ship Explodes" result.

Seven Auroras?  That's about 10,500 aggregate tons and at TL-12, too; the
rough equivalent of sending Osa-class PTMs against a US Aegis cruiser.  And
the Auroras win?  That doesn't sound right, unless that was a lucky hit.  I
don't have Battle Rider, but if the combat had been played out with Brilliant
Lances rules, the Auroras would have been toast.  The AHL could engage one
Aurora with the spinal MG each turn, (and given the ROF and MFD of this gun,
that should pretty much destroy whatever it fires at).  Dividing the remaining 
targets between the missile barbettes (firing, say 14 missiles at each target
each turn, until the maximum of 200 are in flight) [*].  The Azhanti has 500
missiles in ready storage, and another 1500 stored for reloading (and when
there's no boarding action going on, the ship's troops can assist the
reloading, too).

With the sandcasters and damper barbettes for anti-missile defense, combined
with the fact that Auroras aren't armed with missiles (at least, not the
version in the BL material), releases the lasers to go after the Auroras,
too - 14 of the 300Mj laser barbettes, per Aurora [*].

The Aurora's laser (1/9-27) doesn't stand a prayer of a chance at
penetrating the AHL's hull armor, so it can only scrape antennas and other
items off of the hull surface - and it will take a great many hits to get
rid of all of the systems - I recall that there are at least 4 sets of
everything, and usually more, aboard the AHL.

The Aurora's meson gun is at -2 diff mod to be repelled by the AHL's meson
screen (DV 158 versus PV 782), which means that 95% of the meson gun shots
that hit will be repelled - perhaps one shot penetrates the screen every
three turns or so.

The Aurora's have an advantage in overall maneuver fuel, and so could
probably break off whenever they wanted to, although again that would mean
running the gauntlet of the Azhanti's fighters and gunboats.

It sounds like Battle Rider combat results don't jive with Brilliant Lances,
at least, not when large ships are involved.


merrick@RT66.com (Merrick Burkhardt) wrote:
> What is the deal with missle fire control numbers, anyway?
> With FC:-5, each dedicated MFD should control 5 missles, right? 
> I have no idea how many MFDs the AHL would have, but this is way off on
> most BR designs.  The valor as listed is M:20(40), but from BL it should be
> M:24(20)... even if we assume auto loaders, it would still be
> M:24(40)... how many more are screwy?

The Azhanti's have 40 Beam/Missile MFDs for the missile barbettes.  At least
in Brilliant Lances, this would allow 200 missiles to be controlled at once. 
So should the number be M:200<500)?  (number of missiles controlled, and number
of ready missiles).  Note that the Azhanti has another 1500 missiles in
cargo.

According to BL, the Valor has 4 MFDs, for a total of 20 missiles controlled
at once.  In addition, its missile barbettes have a total of 20 ready
missiles, for a rating of M:20(20), if I'm guessing correctly.

If missiles in cargo should be included, then the Azhanti should be
M:200(2000), and the Valor should be M:20(40).


[*]  A few notes on the Azhantis: for historical (and presumably combat
coordination reasons) the ship's secondary weapons are divided into
'batteries' of 10 turrets; all of these engage the same target.  The AHL as
designed has one MFD per battery, but four independent and separate fire
control centers for each battery (for a total of 4 MFDs for each battery).

In the case of missiles, it makes a certain amount of sense to use the
additional MFDs to control extra missiles at the same target.  To do
otherwise would be silly - 10 barbettes in the battery, but only control 5
missiles at once?  It makes a lot more sense for there to be 10 barbettes in
the battery, and control 20 missiles at once, but restrict them all to the
same target.  It wouldn't be correct to use those extra MFDs to engage more
targets - the Azhantis can't engage more than 10 different targets with each
category of minor weaponry.  To play this ships fire control organization
properly, weapons should be allocated to targets in blocks of 10 barbettes.

The spinal mount, nuclear dampers, and particle accellerator bays each
engage targets independently - each weapon is a 'battery'.

Against seven Auroras, each attacker would get engaged by one 'battery' of
10 turrets, and three would get engaged by 20.

wildstar@quark.qrc.com

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction
Adventure
                                                     In the Far Future

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Oct 1994 20:25:30 -0700 (PDT)
From: Michael Llaneza <mllaneza@mercury.sfsu.edu>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Subject: BattleRider Ships I did
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9410222013.A29793-0100000@mercury>

Actually, the missile contral factors are all off by a factor of the 
absolute value of the FC rating. I forgot that MFD's control multiple 
missiles. Mr. Burkhardt is quite right on this.

Michael Carter Llaneza
Conceptual Design Services             The Worse it gets,
Pi Kappa Phi                           The more I get used to it.
"I am the NRA"			       Duty Now For The Future


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Date: Sat, 22 Oct 94 23:22:22 
From: john.bogan@asb.com
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: 2300 =! TRAVELLER
Message-ID: <9410222322.A2500wk@asb.com>


Regarding the recent question as to why 2300 has stutterwarp
but CT, MT, and TNE do not, the reason is that they are
two SEPARATE background universes.

Traveller (assorted) has its own timeline and technical assumptions.
2300 has a different set, which includes stutterwarp.


John Bogan

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Date: Sun, 23 Oct 1994 12:47:34 +0000 (GMT)
From: Duncan Law-Green <dlg@jb.man.ac.uk>
To: Traveller Mailing List <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Subject: Re; Supernova and stutterwarp questions...
Message-ID: <Pine.3.87.9410231234.A29299-0100000@fafnir>


Glen Meyers wrote:- 
>How long will the [super?]nova last before it collapses to a white dwarf.
>Years? Decades? I need to know how long jump travel will be impossible.
>Would it prohibit space travel in nearby systems? If so, for how long?
 
I would guess that core collapse of a massive star to a neutron star 
during a supernova takes of the order of the sound crossing time of the 
degenerate core. Seconds, in other words.

I'm an extragalactic astronomer, not a stellar one, so don't quote me on 
that <grin>... 

Jump travel is so much technobullsh*t, so you can give whatever timescale 
you want for how long the supernova interferes with Jump 
travel..."gravitational radiation from the supernova event disturbs the 
Jump continua causing Jump travel to be extremely hazardous for 
years/decades/whatever..."

>On another thread entirely, why is stutterwarp used in Trav2300 but not 
>in CT, MT, and TNE. Has a plausible reason been published for why SW
>technology disappeared? I don't have 2300 but I've been playing with
>FF&S. None of my homebrewed designs converted very favorably to TNE.
>I figure TNE really is a new background so why not add a few more retcons.
 
Um. SW didn't "disappear" from CT/MT/TNE...it never existed. 2300 
postulates a different timeline from Traveller (no Vilani lurking at 
Barnard's Star!) and has different laws of physics. Not that this should 
stop you producing your own variant <grin>

TTFN

Duncan
======

 "Truth decays into beauty, while beauty soon becomes merely charm.  Charm
  ends up as strangeness, and even that doesn't last, but up and down are
  forever." - The Laws of Physics


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Date: Sun, 23 Oct 1994 15:27:50 +0000 (GMT)
From: Stewart Eyres <spe@jb.man.ac.uk>
To: "Trav. Mailing List" <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Subject: Supernova duration
Message-ID: <Pine.3.87.9410231550.A11829-0100000@jbss4>

Glenn E. Myers wrote

> How long will the nova last before it collapses to a white dwarf.
> Years? Decades? I need to know how long jump travel will be impossible.
> Would it prohibit space travel in nearby systems? If so, for how long?
 
OK, if I remember this correctly, Supernovae (SNe) do not turn into white 
dwarfs, which are only for wimpy little stars (like less than 8 times the 
mass of the Sun), but instead become Neutron Stars, which are about 10 km 
across and have about the mass of the Sun.  These produce a lot of 
radiation, including radio waves (it may be a pulsar), I'm not sure what 
else, I'll have to look it up.  Some are x-ray pulsars, and x-rays can be 
naxty.  As to how long before you can return to the system, well the 
initial radiation from the SN travels at the speed of light, so will be 
well clear of the system within a year, but I'm not sure how long the 
thing takes to burn off everything and leave the naked neutron star.  I'd 
guess it would be a few years before anyone would really want to visit 
the system, although why they would bother, I'm not sure.  Escaping 
starships knocked out before jumping?  There is also a gravity wave 
(possibly) resulting from the collapse of the star, and this would arrive 
well ahead of the actual visual and physical explosion (which takes time 
to reach the surface of the star).  I'd guess this would have an adverse 
effect on a starship attempting to jump when the wave passed by, and of 
course as gravity waves travel at the speed of light, this would be the 
first anyone knew about the SN.  About the only things I could imagine 
surviving for any significant time beyond the SN are any planets out (way 
out) in the outer system, and a companion star at a reasonable distance ( 
a few AU, at least orbit 6 or 7 in Scouts), and perhaps starships in the 
outer system which were shielded, say by a gas giant.  I suppose gas 
giants could survive quite well if they were far enough out, so maybe a 
shielded satellite would as well.  All this is a bit off the cuff, as I'm 
not sure how long the violent part of the SN will last, or how long it 
remains intense.  If there was a companion star, this may be shedding gas 
onto the neutron star, which would result in a lot of x-rays.  

I'm even less sure of the effects on the surrounding systems.  Generally 
not good,  suppose, although I'd be suprised if they were physically 
catastrophic.  Even the closest system would probably have about 3 years 
warning (assuming the SN was a regular destination, and the change in 
traffic is noticable).  As I said before, if the SN was previously in an 
important economic, politcal, or social position, the collateral effects 
would probably be far more damaging.  Just thought of a reason why some 
people would be eager to return to the system quite soon after the SN; a 
(relatively) large amount of rare, star processed, elements would be 
blown out by the explosion, and these could be gathered by a clever and 
courageous prospector.

'nuff for now

____________________________________________________________________________
"Traveller Done Wrong 
	- Let's get the Fiction back into Science Fiction Roleplaying"

Stewart								N.R.A.L.
								Jodrell Bank
								Macclesfield
spe@jb.man.ac.uk						Cheshire
								SK11 9DL
____________________________________________________________________________




------------------------------

Date: 23 Oct 94 14:45:09 EDT
From: Hugh Foster <100326.446@compuserve.com>
To: "INTERNET:traveller@mpgn.com" <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Subject: TRAVELLER digest 78
Message-ID: <941023184509_100326.446_BHB84-1@CompuServe.COM>

>> Is the ENTIRE PREMISE behind TNE that the intelligent-chip-things from
Signal GK take over the universe??? Sheesh. What next, hivers posing as
SolSec agents??? <<

Yeah, I thought it was a load of dingo's kidneys as well.


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End of TRAVELLER Digest 79
**************************
